Arizona, New York, Washington, and Vermont all pledge to beef up ID security
It's been a while since we've heard anything about the much-hated Real ID unified RFID national identification card, but that doesn't mean the Department of Homeland Security has been sitting still: New York, Arizona, Washington, and Vermont all agreed earlier this month to beef up the security of driver's licenses to comply with DHS' new Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. WHTI is the same fun law that requires US citizens carry a passport to travel to Canada and Mexico, and while it's not clear if it requires RFID licenses for states to comply, eWeek is reporting that both New York and Washington are headed towards including the tags anyway. Given the immense backlash Real ID came under for similar schemes, it'll be interesting to see how WHTI plays out -- but you can bet we're holding onto the janky laminated driver's license we got in college as long as we can.[Via Autoblog]
Filed under: Misc. Gadgets
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
mushrooshi @ Dec 28th 2007 8:12PM
And what prevents mexico from jumping OUR borders?
BigD145 @ Dec 29th 2007 3:57PM
Liberals. Conservatives like their cheap pesticide vegetables too much to pick them themselves.
yoshi @ Dec 28th 2007 9:04PM
You people are hopeless. They're playing you against each other and you have no clue. Liberals = Conservatives. No difference. They only give you choices on the things that don't matter to them.
Logboy @ Dec 28th 2007 8:43PM
Hey...you can make an awesome 21st century slick, high tech ID, but if you still have the same DMV morons issuing them, it won't change a thing.
And hey in case everybody forgot... The 911 hijackers didn't come from Mexico, they came from Canada, which is much easier to do.
Wwhat @ Dec 28th 2007 9:14PM
WTF? rofl, came from canada..
Logboy @ Dec 29th 2007 6:17AM
Came over the border you lugnut.
Dan @ Dec 28th 2007 8:49PM
So much for blocking real ID innitiatives. Seriously, how does tracking your own citizens make a nation safer? How does surveillance of domestic people make us safer? How does brutal policing of people make us safer? They don't, they make things worse than they are. RFID tags are not helpful and really invade privacy. Why does the government need to know wher you are at? Why should they know? Being able to track criminals with outsanding history and DUI drunk drivers might be an okay thing. However, tracking of civilians who have not done anything wrong I believe is abusing technology. Recording everyones calls in and out of the United States is not a wise use of resources in general since you have so many hours to go over even when you can limit it, there could still be so many hours to sift through, it is nearly impractical to do so. Surveillance of civilians just does not make sense and does not benefit the public and wastes our own tax dollars. What are we paying for? To let the government know what we are up to?
z0phi3l @ Dec 29th 2007 1:46AM
And where are they doing that? I'm looking to move out of the US and would hate to move to that country.
Rob @ Dec 28th 2007 8:49PM
Actually, that's the real size of the new drivers license. So, in that case, it might actually work out for them. It'd be pretty hard to duplicate something that big. Kuddos for all these smart politicians wasting our money on worthless crap and giving id cards to those who shouldn't be getting one in the first place. Also, keep an eye on our Canadian neighbors. They have pretty relaxed laws, and we have open borders with them.
tamosius @ Dec 28th 2007 8:59PM
what happens when you put those licenses to a microwave, and "cook" it for a while?
I'm not sure how RFID works, but wouldn't that "switch" aka burn it off? Anyone is here more knowledgeable than I am?
Wwhat @ Dec 28th 2007 9:16PM
Yes but it leaves scorch marks, and then you can be charged with wilfully destroying it.
Also people that experimented on passports say a good whack with a hammer on the chip works cleanly in disabling it.
jus10 @ Dec 28th 2007 9:22PM
Or you could get a rfid blocking wallet. I got once recently as part of my "wallet I've been carrying since high school is falling apart" replacement intiativve. It blocks the chip in my Mastercard and the chip for the subway.
When I have to get a new passport I'll be getting a rfid blocking case for that as well.
Andrew @ Dec 28th 2007 9:01PM
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
Part III of the movie discusses this. I'm not saying the movie is accurate, but it certainly makes you think!
I don't mean to spam the URL of this movie, but I think people here will enjoy it.
jroc @ Dec 28th 2007 9:05PM
I posted that link on here a few times, it is definitely more for orwellian means than it is to prevent "terrorism". Ron Paul is against RFID and the Real ID act.
Samurai Jack @ Dec 28th 2007 9:07PM
Let's see... four border states are looking to undertake an initiative that will make it easier for their citizens to cross the border without the need for a passport. Seems to me this is a good thing, especially if you like to occasionally go to Canada or Mexico but don't travel often enough to make the $67 it would cost to get a passport worthwhile.
This is all about convenience for their citizens and not some government conspiracy. The objection the states had to the Real ID provision was the fact that it was (yet another) unfunded federal mandate. They would have been fine with it had DC offered to pay for it. The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative is a separate issue entirely, and states are using this driver's license change as a means to support local business that rely on border crossings to make money.
Now if Nebraska does the same you might have an argument. But not with these border states.
Wwhat @ Dec 28th 2007 9:17PM
Yep, and hitler invaded poland to help the people there.
Why can't people understand it's all done for the people? geez eh.
Dan @ Dec 28th 2007 9:20PM
Samurai, I hate to say it but why would you need to track people who are going over the border? Please explain that before you say it is not a government conspiracy. Sure the cost is the main reason, that is still on the table cause these are being developed with your federal tax dollars along with your state tax dollars as well. How do tracking devices to track citizens make a nation safer just because they go across the border?
Mike @ Dec 28th 2007 10:05PM
Wwhat: Might want to do some research once you stop laughing. I believe he's correct, though he didn't say what you think he said. The hijackers didn't originally come from Canada, but several of them entered the US by way of Canada. Other terrorists (or more accurately "intended terrorists") including "millennium bomber" Ahmed Ressam have attempted to enter from Canada. To the best of my knowledge, no known terrorists have ever been apprehended attempting to enter from Mexico.
Wwhat @ Dec 29th 2007 10:36AM
They could have entered from ANYWHERE since they were in the US legally.
And they would have gotten passports, including chips as complex as you can think of if they had been available then.
In fact some of them went to a flightschool in holland and they said "well yeah you can learn to fly here but it's cheaper to take flying lessons in the US" so off they went to the US, so I'm guessing they came from holland then huh?
TC @ Dec 28th 2007 9:21PM
Let's hope these DL's indicate citizenship or are available to US citizens only after a thorough background check.
Where I come from our state government is still trying to figure out how to issue licenses to the undocumented. If you can't prove who you are then why should a government agency certify anything?
Should these states even be in the quasi-passport business? Are they planning to secede?
jbhitter24 @ Dec 28th 2007 9:33PM
dangit!
Samurai Jack @ Dec 28th 2007 9:43PM
What's with the straw man arguments?
There's nothing here about tracking. The RFID chip is to make sure that the license isn't altered. Presumably you can counterfeit the license info--height, weight, even the picture--but not the information contained on the chip. If the data on the license doesn't match the data on the chip, something is amiss. This would be a clear signal to border and immigration/customs agents.
Perhaps you should also note that all current US passports come with an RFID chip, presumably for the same reason. The range on these things can be measured in feet. It's unlikely they'd be useful for tracking you. If you're worried about this sort of thing go buy yourself an RFID-shielded wallet. They're available all over the internet.
RedBull Runner @ Dec 28th 2007 10:35PM
Wow, Amazing. There is someone else on the internet that has at least a shred of sanity left and isn't screaming about how the government did 9/11 and how ron paul will make a magical fairy elixir that will fix the country. Thanks for being a beacon of hope that maybe, just maybe there are other people out there that should be allowed to mate and pass on their sane, conspiracy theory free genes.
Dan @ Dec 28th 2007 11:08PM
It is still easy to abuse the technology given as has already been seen.
PEZ @ Dec 28th 2007 10:34PM
4 of the most useless states in the union. Since when were Canadians a threat? AHAHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHA! AHAHAHAHA!
Maybe sone KILLER Hawaiians will come get us! Or some Atlantians! OooooH, so scared!
seoultrain @ Dec 29th 2007 12:42AM
Trying to figure out if the sarcasm in the 2nd part of your post applies to the 1st part. So far, I can't say it does.
New York and Washington are useless states? really? You know, it would be hard to defend the South or most of the fly-over states (no offense), but you, sir, are either completely delusional or monumentally ignorant.
iamstu @ Dec 29th 2007 1:26AM
Since terrorists sneaked in through Canada to take down the world trade center - that's when Canada was a threat.
superhyperduck @ Dec 28th 2007 10:52PM
I actually live in Arizona and remember hearing about this on the news when the democrat governor of our state began pushing it. The republican congressmen and senators don't want these ID's they seem them as unnecessary and a little too big brotherish. I think even some dem's are against it here. So it might be unlikely to pass in Arizona, but I wouldn't rule it out as my governor is starting to scare me. At first I didn't think she was all that bad but now she is bugging me with this Real ID crap. Well I didn't vote for her still now I hope she's gone in 08'.
uagent @ Dec 28th 2007 11:40PM
Yeah, don't forget Janet's out to push the speed cameras far and wide. I'm starting to miss the days of ol' Propane Jane. At least all we had to worry about then was the state going bankrupt.
My folks recently got caught up in the mess of the push to the pretty Grand Canyon pictures on their license (they still had the aforementioned "janky laminated driver's license we got in college" type). They weren't happy to find out the licenses they were told would last them until they were 65 weren't valid anymore. They had to sit at the MVD for hours just before their flight. I don't blame them; having to deal with TWO incompetent gov't. agencies in a day would drive most anyone mad...
katakata @ Dec 28th 2007 11:29PM
one more step towards the 'mark of the beast'! and RFID implantation chips! and the control of the elite secret society! SOON there will be a North American Union, then a New World order!
Richard @ Dec 29th 2007 12:00AM
Thank god I live in a real "free" democracy called Australia, the whole ID Card concept was chucked in the bin a few days ago by the Government as a wast of time. ID Cards just tell you the card is kosher not the person carrying it.
brux2dc @ Dec 29th 2007 12:26AM
Come on people. I was raised in Belgium and in that country, along with most every other European nation, there is a mandate to always carry the national identity card. Guess what? Nobody ever wanted to see it (except that drunken time on the subway...). It is a great way to verify who is legit and who isn't. If everybody had a forge-proof document which verified status/identity is that such a problem? RFID is not something that would be used to track you. Seriously, do you think the government really would want to blanket the country with rfid readers to track everybody at all times! And you thought the border fence was expensive!
seoultrain @ Dec 29th 2007 12:33AM
Will the government put adequate encryption on the cards to prevent identity theft?
anything can be hacked. Only a matter of time before someone can wirelessly zap your vital info just by passing by you. My guess is frying/breaking/foiling cards will be popular.
de-FUDer @ Dec 29th 2007 12:55AM
Folks, RealID and WHTI are NOT the same thing. WHTI is the implementation of the 911 commission's recommendations regarding border security. WHTI-compliant EDL's (enhanced Drivers Licenses, or drivers licenses with RFID embedded) will be used to cross the border. If you don't want an EDL, then don't sign up for one (just get a regular drivers license).
As for perpetual FUD regarding the supposed amazing tracking ability of RFID in the wild... RFID can only track tags where there are readers in near range (approx 30 ft for UHF, what we're talking about here) and you have a relatively controlled RF environment so you can minimize the chance of interference. At $1,000 - $2,000 per reader (plus expense for Antennas, cabling, and infrastructure), you'd be talking about a MASSIVE expense to try to track people wherever they go across the united states with readers that only have 30 ft range (less than WiFi !!!).
Plus, RFID has already been at the borders for years now... Frequent Traveler programs (voluntary enrollment) like NEXUS, SENTRI, and FAST (google them + the term "CBP" to find more info) all use RFID, and by doing so, wait times are decreased for enrollees by a significant amount. For instance, typical San Ysidro rush hour wait can be 2-2.5 hours. SENTRI wait = 15 minutes.
b @ Dec 29th 2007 1:16AM
Hmm... How are us 20 year olds and under supposed to fake these to get into bars and liquor stores...I must get on duplicating these.
Adrian @ Dec 29th 2007 9:34PM
Actually, I read that it's Michigan and three other states who agreed to use RFID in driver's licenses, not NY. Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/four-states-to-use-rfid-chips-in-drivers-licenses.html