Nintendo estimates it lost $975m worldwide in 2007 due to piracy
We're always a little skeptical of piracy impact numbers, especially when companies try to factor in things like "lost sales," which can't be adequately measured, but it's still interesting to hear how large the hit is estimated to be -- like Nintendo's recent filing with the US Trade Representative that piracy cost it and its partners some $975m worldwide in 2007. Saying that the popularity of the Wii and DS makes Nintendo an "attractive target" for counterfeiters, the big N broke the problem down by region, highlighting its efforts to stem the tide and proposed solutions and regulations. We'd say that with profits soaring and plenty of people clamoring for hard-to-find systems, Nintendo could probably get back a little of that cash by finally getting some boxes on shelves instead of pushing for new laws, but hey -- even Mario's lawyers probably get sick of being paid in mushrooms.[Image courtesy of Nick Cueva]
Filed under: Gaming
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Pismodude @ Feb 14th 2008 11:30PM
Sucks for them... Rocks for everyone else!
AKBlade13 @ Feb 14th 2008 11:31PM
More like sucks for everyone.
More piracy = less money = less products, just ask the anime community about pirating and what's happening to the industry.
AKBlade13
Pismodude @ Feb 14th 2008 11:37PM
@AKBlade13 Or: More Piracy=Everyone has the current product=New products must be made if the company hopes to survive. (I don't pirate anything BTW, just offering an alternate scenario)
madgamer @ Feb 14th 2008 11:41PM
Anime gets pirated because its prices are cracked out. They are frequently like 30$ for 3-4 episodes versus about 40$ for an entire (15-20+ episodes) season of a normal show. The 'freedom' anime on HD-DVD is over 30$ PER episode. It's like they want it to be rental only or something. I agree that it sucks for everyone though.
Jeff @ Feb 14th 2008 11:52PM
Yeah at $30 a disc with 3 episodes on it, they are just encouraging piracy.
I could always buy the Chinese duplicate for I donno...$1
sinai @ Feb 14th 2008 11:56PM
@AKBlade - That's a crock. Do you work for the MAFIAA?
case in point: the original playstation was the first widely modded console in the history of console gaming. sony went from being a complete newbie stuck between the two giants that were Nintendo and Sega and straight to the top. because they could mod it, people were buying the original PS in droves. and because of the huge hardware base, Nintendo lost key third parties like Square, while other key companies like capcom and konami focused mostly on the playstation.
you can't prove that people will stop buying games because they can pirate them. most people pirate games they are not likely to buy. if they really wanted to support a development house they will buy the games. people are not immoral robots.
pinchies @ Feb 15th 2008 1:27AM
In Australia, most of the piracy would be on the DS - Just so convenient to have all your games on one card... with "other" features too.
P.S. The wii can be pirated? This is news to me, but I haven't been watching.
Nimajus Bagdonavicius @ Feb 15th 2008 2:19AM
"More piracy = less money" Grow some fucking brain...
I can't believe someone buys their bullshit! Are you serious dude?! It's exactly the same as me saying I lost $40,000 last year because potential clients used some of my photos and templates without purchasing them from me.
Or how about I lost $10,000 last month, because no one bought my original painting, but instead printed out reproductions by scanning/stealing a version from my web server.
(with pirated games you most often don't get full experience either)
Darkest Daze @ Feb 15th 2008 2:43AM
@sinai:
To add to that; you also can't prove that every time something is pirated, that the person would of actually bought it if they had no other choice. A lot of times, people will pirate stuff they kind of want to play, but they would never buy it if they had to pay full price because they don't feel it's actually worth it.
This is why I can't stand these "We lost X amount of money to piracy!" stories. Just because someone pirates it, doesn't guarantee it as a sale. It also doesn't guarantee that the person won't actually buy the game if they like it enough.
Rocketboy @ Feb 15th 2008 9:27AM
If you steal something to avoid paying for it, it's wrong. If you steal something that you would never pay for, then really, who loses out?
But with regard to Anime piracy, you can't deny that piracy in the early days (fan subs/dubs would be categorized as piracy) helped out the industry. And anyone who had respect for the companies that were releasing things in the early days, would buy what they stole, if it ever became available.
Super Intendo @ Feb 14th 2008 11:31PM
So... this is the equivalent of somebody stealing five dollars out of my pocket, no?
ScooterDe @ Feb 15th 2008 3:02AM
Same argument that a wholesale bag of cocaine is worth millions, because some genius calculates the value of all the dime bags.
A similar statistical rort is to claim that a TV show or news event is 'watched' by millions, because it is available on multiple broadcasts reaching millions (who might not be watching).
Piracy is also a marketing mechanism: it enables people to experience something they might not otherwise afford or choose to buy. It is foolish for copyright owners (games, movies, music) to equate piracy with lost sales.
Ignatius @ Feb 14th 2008 11:34PM
Call the WAAAAAAHHMBULANCE.
2007 has been your best year, Nintendo.
Sonic_13 @ Feb 14th 2008 11:39PM
Just because only Nintendo has spoken publicly about this doesn't mean that Sony and Microsoft aren't just as affected by piracy, nevermind the numerous game publishers and developers. Piracy is a serious issue that affects the entire industry.
Nintendo's actions against pirates not only ensure and safeguard revenue and profits for themselves, but also the video game industry as a whole.
AJ in the East Bay @ Feb 14th 2008 11:52PM
@Ignacius: I agree. I love Nintendo and somehow got a Wii console on launch day, but to hear them complain about losing money while they have a stellar product that lasts seconds on the shelves (if at all) is ridiculous.
Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Feb 15th 2008 9:44AM
Nintendo has to complain. Just not to create precedent that it OKs piracy.
I believe that Nintendo of all gaming companies understand that piracy plays important role in promoting gaming and expanding market. It is literally free advertisement.
In all times, level of piracy of particular game/console was best and most correct indicator of popularity.
But still they - as business - have to speak up, they have to fight pirates. Because they have business and they have to protect it. At least formally.
P.S. Piracy in fact is more of an issue to independent game developers than to giants like N, Sony or M$. Entry fee into particular gaming market is high. Game development costs are high. And if you made a successful game you have to profit from it to the last - to return all previous investments. Loosing something to piracy may by fatal. Interestingly, in PC market (where there is no entry fee and dev costs are much lower), many game studios are supported indirectly by fans who buy several copies of game on launch: just to support game developers they like. I haven't seen such behavior in console market...
David W. @ Feb 14th 2008 11:34PM
I'd like to know how the heck they get those numbers?
Jagannath A @ Feb 14th 2008 11:39PM
"estimates"
TJ @ Feb 14th 2008 11:43PM
Nintendo estimates it profit $975 billion worldwide in 2007.
I think thats pretty much what they did lol, guess a number lol.
wootman @ Feb 14th 2008 11:46PM
their asses.
anyway, if i were a pirate, i sure as hell wouldnt only pirate games i would normally buy, so if you pirate 40 games but only buy 1 normally, what are you actually stealing?
ps not a pirate
Krono6 @ Feb 15th 2008 7:31AM
Being a part of Friendcodes.com (recently left as Chat Admin), it's very easy to understand that piracy has affected Nintendo greatly. Probably not as big as they claim, but rather big instead. Consider that I know a big load of children and early teens are into using methods to pirate DS games, and quite a few into Wii piracy.
The percentage is higher than most people would like to think.
APPLES @ Feb 14th 2008 11:36PM
well actually usually piraters wouldnt bye as much as they pirate
so what im saying is if they didnt pirate they would bye less then they pirate
Carl Vitullo @ Feb 15th 2008 6:50AM
"buy"
Luke @ Feb 14th 2008 11:40PM
Nobody cost Nintendo more sales than Nintendo. Its not just the popularity of the Wii that makes it an attractive target for counterfeits, its that they don't manufacture enough for people who are actually willing to pay the retail price but not 3-4x the price that resellers are charging.
Maybe the $975 mill includes lost sales from not meeting demand.
Guzzie @ Feb 14th 2008 11:41PM
Maybe if Nintendo spent a little more money into developing ways to protect their property, this wouldn't be happening. I can't imagine it taking more than 975 million to develop or even license some kind of anti-piracy measures, so it's unclear why they didn't opt for that from the get-go (especially on Wii).
DS and Wii are exceptionally easy to pirate games on. About sixty bucks for either and a little soldering for the Wii is all it takes. Wii is almost at a point where no mod chip is needed to run homebrew, and pirates aren't ever far behind.
The fact that Nintendo doesn't issue mandatory patches for anything certainly doesn't help the situation.
toppgun @ Feb 14th 2008 11:52PM
also the lack of online multiplayer on the wii with authentication means there is no incentive to spend the money for 1 play through.
//dont pirate wii
//has r4 for my ds so i dont have to carry all the carts around
Karma_Green @ Feb 14th 2008 11:58PM
anti-piracy measures never work there is always a work around, although I agree with you that they should issue mandatory patches on games. plus most people who buy pirated games around the world are people who cant afford to pay 50 or 60 dollars a game
Jonyah @ Feb 15th 2008 12:25AM
My exact thoughts guzzie. The wii and ds are the easiest platforms to pirate games for. It wouldn't have taken much for nintendo to do something a little better. This isn't as big of an issue for Sony since they've made a machine very difficult to mod. Sony learned their lesson. The ps and ps2 were both easy to mod as well as the xbox for ms. Most people don't mod their xbox 360's because they die so often. Modding them gets rid of their warrantee, plus it's not as simple as the wii. The ds only takes a $40 cartridge, no modding necessary. You don't see anything like that for the PSP.
The other problem is that game developers have tried to jump on the wii/ds bandwagon and are creating crap games. 90%+ of all games for the Wii and DS suck. It's not that they aren't good, they really really suck.
Devin @ Feb 15th 2008 12:50AM
Makes you wonder if Microsoft deliberately has the RROD as an mod deterrent...
KEROLiUKAS @ Feb 14th 2008 11:44PM
These numbers are ussualy totally inacurate, I can tell you for sure that at least 60% of the pirates wouldn't have bought those games in the first place.
Anyways, Wii sux, get the Vii 2 :D
zargon @ Feb 14th 2008 11:46PM
I estimate I have lost about $2,394.23 reading articles about companies claiming they are loosing money over piracy.
I love these completely made up "estimates" companies come up with over how much they lost over piracy. News flash, most of these people wouldn't have purchased your product in the first place, so you are out of the money in the first place. In fact, dare I say that possibly, the piracy actually may generate more income in the long run due to their product getting out to the people more... maybe...
sinai @ Feb 14th 2008 11:46PM
earth to nintendo:
more piracy = more consoles sold.
more consoles sold = more games made.
more games made = more games bought.
???
PROFIT!
Yevon @ Feb 14th 2008 11:49PM
And in other news: American-Made Modchip Sales Rising, Helping US Economy.
More on this at 11. Back to you, Engadget.
polak @ Feb 14th 2008 11:49PM
I haven't read up on pirating Wii games, but if its anything like the Xbox then few people would be capable or even willing to do it. Claims like Nintendo's $975M are taken out of the clouds. I'm sure if you spoke to all of the Wii owners only a handful would know about piracy and even less would know how to do it on their Wii.
Reader @ Feb 14th 2008 11:50PM
Does that mean the Vii made 975million in revenue? :P
Jagannath A @ Feb 14th 2008 11:51PM
I hate these kind of estimates...
ppl who pirate are not going/able to buy in the first place so this is almost like worrying about a lost opportunity which was never there to begin with.
I'm all against piracy but pulling these kind of numbers is a bit deceptive.
fortunado @ Feb 14th 2008 11:51PM
I know right. I see you guys up there preaching the truth. Just because someone pirates a game doesn' tmean they would have bought it. So 1 download != one sale.
Shawn @ Feb 14th 2008 11:54PM
good riddance, we need more pirates. it's the only way to combat global warming.
for the noodley one!
Jeff @ Feb 14th 2008 11:55PM
I have a feeling they are also counting the countries they don't usually deal in like Hong Kong, the Philipines, Singapore, China where piracy IS gaming.
Aguiluz @ Feb 15th 2008 9:56AM
Back when I was in the Philippines, there is a Pirate Heaven mall called Greenhills. Even cops go there to buy. Even security guards tip off pirates on oncoming raids. When I migrated to Canada, I found Pacific Mall which we dubbed the Canadian Greenhills.
Alex @ Feb 15th 2008 8:27PM
Pacific mall rules, but it's a bloody mess! Besides, it's not just pacific, it's all the asian malls in the GTA (I don't know about elsewhere, only ever visit Toronto)
Wii60 @ Feb 14th 2008 11:56PM
Well Nintendo your, pardon my french, BS estimates are gonna get worse now that we're running unsigned code.
nigb @ Feb 15th 2008 12:01AM
cant meet product demands 14 months after launch... i raise the bullshit flag on this one.
sinai @ Feb 15th 2008 12:04AM
Nintendo wants me to buy Ninjabread Man for $30, and I'M THE CRIMINAL?
WS @ Feb 15th 2008 12:04AM
Companies want a world where 100% of people have to shell out $69.99 on a title. If multiple households have multiple consoles, then they expect multiple copies of the game. They want a world where if you didn't pay for it, you only know of game through commercials. You will never play it, touch it, breath on it, or have any memory of it, save for those few authorized game-shots used in advertising.
They focus on all those people that lend their games, copy them outright, and even rent them; looking at these people as 69.99 dollar bills flying out of their pockets.
They live in a fantasy land. Reports like these serve only to cause awareness and to try and spur new anti-piracy laws into action that promise harsher penalties and stricter fines. They don't realize that people don't pirate because of the lack of copy protection or don't pirate because of a fear of legal action.
These companies would do well and learn that doctors who are nice to their patients statistically get sued less. That people speed indefinitely when there are no cops around. And that states that have capital punishment still have high rates of crime. Why? Understand human behaviour, understand belief values and attitudes... study your consumer base scientifically and adopt a new radical system that could actually work for you instead of clinging to an archaic structure that has proven time and time again to fail...
Dummies.
Alex R @ Feb 15th 2008 3:24AM
Now that, WS, was a comment!
niels @ Feb 15th 2008 6:45AM
Somebody give this man a prize! Totally agreed!
IsNoGood @ Feb 15th 2008 12:08AM
Well I copy and buy copy's of all the Wii games, because of the Regional zones
that prevent me from using any legal games in my box
I have asked Big N how I'm able to update my zone but that's not possible so I guess its no my problem I have the USD to buy the games but I'm not able to, same go for the online part.
Why ? Because I have US Wii, now that we move to Asia I cant use any of the functions or orginal games, well more USD for beer I guess
nigb @ Feb 15th 2008 12:10AM
What if the pirate would have never bought them game to begin with, but only pirated the game because it was there and the pirate had the means to do so? that’s money Nintendo would have never had, maybe blockbuster might of had it... so blockbuster might of had it in the form of rentals, but now blockbuster is taking a loss because of the internet and bit torrent sites... blockbuster should make an announcement claiming the internet is causing it to loss 100 million
Rob @ Feb 15th 2008 12:11AM
They're full of it. They always present all these inflated numbers for "shock and awe." Just like the RIAA said early this month that they're numbers they presented to the public were higher than they actually are. So, considering that they managed to "affect" the political power of some politicians to pass certain laws, wouldn't that qualify their data as "libel" and "slander"?