So what you see here is
exactly what AT&T and Microsoft will be deploying to a handful of stores on April 17 -- 12 stores in four cities, to be exact -- and we have to admit, this appears to be a pretty flawless execution of the Surface's user interface concepts and a great business model for the 30 inch, multitouch monster to undertake. Being able to throw down a phone or two and get specs, review plans, and compare features is simply jaw-droppingly cool, though what really got us was another feature that AT&T has apparently been tossing around as a future possibility: device-to-device transfer. The idea is that a customer would walk in to purchase a new phone, place both phones on the surface, and contacts, photos, music, and so on stored on the old handset would appear on the Surface, where they could be selectively dragged to the new one or discarded. Even better, you have the exciting opportunity to pick up the last user's norovirus as you run your hand along the thing. One suggestion, AT&T: keep some bleach handy. Please. For our sake. Follow the break for the video!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:26PM
Why oh why would I want to compare different phones, when AT&T has the iPhone hiding behind the counter? Sorry, guys, you're too late.
pnarse @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:31PM
Because you might want some of the features, apps, phone designs, 3G, networks, operating systems and hardware the iPhone doesn't have?
Don't get me wrong I love my iPhone but what's right for me is not right for everyone and there are plenty of reasons to be looking elsewhere...
Guzzie @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:33PM
Obvious troll is obvious.
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:36PM
The problem with Microsoft's implementation of the multi-touch interface is that it's not scalable. Because of the five projectors and PC combo underneath the glass, you will never see the Surface scaled down to a form factor that's smaller than a big azz table, which means you won't see any laptop tech coming from Microsoft with the Surface interface. You won't even see regular desktops that have Surface components.
And as far as the restaurant implementation, who wants to be touching a table right before eating? What happens during Flu season? I'm sorry, but the Surface is not at all practical.
Nabil @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:39PM
maybe because people like me, don't want to spend $400-$500 on a phone, that doesn't have:
1. flash
2. Good camera
3. Bluetooth
4. Internal storage
5. Keyboard
6. stylus to draw on
7. GPS
So they need to compare phones.
derX @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:45PM
Clak, I think the Surface is meant to be what the Surface and NOT what Apple's multitouch has begun. It is possible that they want to keep the Surface on objects with considerable amounts of surface, like big azz tables and not laptops.
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:52PM
@derX
Okay, well, I'm not saying the Surface won't have some uses. I would like to see a drafting table with this technology, but honestly, even then there will be a considerable amount of problems. If you look at most drafting tables, there is some leg room beneath. I have a drafting table at home right not and there is no way the Surface is going to work for that kind of implementation without being a back breaker.
Now the iPhone technology is already where it needs to be. Those iPod Touches are super thin. So I'll take a big azz Apple tablet over Surface any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The Dude @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:56PM
@Clak:
Because not everyone salivates and loosens their jaw at the jiggling of the iPhone or Apple's proverbial zipper, that's why.
Drew Green @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:00PM
The whole point of the Surface is to be a table-sized multi-touch computer. Yea, like you said, it's a "big azz table", but that's the idea. Multi-touch can still be incorporated into laptops and desktops in the future, but that's not up to Microsoft. It's up to the PC manufacturers. MS isn't a PC manufacturer, they're a "big azz table" manufacturer, in this case.
I read an article a little while back from someone at MS stating that the next release of Windows will incorporate many software advances over Vista to include multi-touch capabilities. He said that he hoped laptop manufacturers would start to pick up on this technology since it has so much potential.
JMMGoalster @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:02PM
@clak
well the touch features are meant for different things. IPhone is meant for easier UI. Can you put another phone on an iphone, even with the right software, and have it be recognized? No, because of the differences in how theyre made. Just like you wont be seeing anyone carrying a Surface around trying to talk on it....
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:10PM
@The Dude
"Because not everyone salivates and loosens their jaw at the jiggling of the iPhone or Apple's proverbial zipper, that's why."
But the question is, why not? Even the Coen Brothers love Apple:http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/2007/04/coen_brothers_f.html
No Country for Old Men was edited using Final Cut Pro. Oh, the horror! (speaking of the horror, Walter Murch, the editor of Apocalypse Now uses FCP too)
http://blogs.digitalmediaonlineinc.com/TechUniverse/entry/200802281
Dude, I see self hatred in your future.
Mike10010100 @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:16PM
@Nabil
Some ambiguity in your comment, were you talking about the iPhone only, or all cell phones?
Because the last time i checked, the iPhone has Bluetooth.
But yes, you're right, this is neat for in-store comparisons, because those stupid little cards don't always have all the information and specs right there.
Matt @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:22PM
Clak:
Surface is more than just a "big azz table with projectors and shit", it's software, that in theory can be adapted to work on any device with touch input capability.
The "big azz table" is the current means of input because to my knowledge, there are no 42" or bigger LCD displays with capacitive touch input capabilities. That's why the current hardware is so complex, is because there is no off the shelf option currently that can offer the same functionality.
Miguel @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:30PM
"The problem with Microsoft's implementation of the multi-touch interface is that it's not scalable. Because of the five projectors and PC combo underneath the glass, you will never see the Surface scaled down to a form factor that's smaller than a big azz table, which means you won't see any laptop tech coming from Microsoft with the Surface interface. You won't even see regular desktops that have Surface components."
Microsoft R&D says "suck it:" http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/22/microsoft-randd-shows-off-multi-touch-laptop/
They can use infrared sensors on a the scale of laptop, too, apparently.
Also, who cares if the Coen brothers use Final Cut Pro? That means they use Final Cut Pro. Good for them. Doesn't mean I have to love Apple. I'm pretty sure the discussion of multitouch implementation had nothing to do with Final Cut Pro. Way to bait-and-switch.
I don't want an iPhone. Honestly, I don't really want a smartphone at all, but if I did buy a smartphone, it would probably be something like the Pantech Duo or a Dash. Is it so wrong that I don't want an all touchscreen phone? I might want to compare phones I want, that are more affordable (iPhone, 2 year contract=$399; Duo, 2 year contact=$99; BlackJack, 2 year contract=$99). Bugger off, troll.
Striker @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:34PM
@ clak
Seriously, get a life.
Apple isn't the only company who makes some good products, get over Apple, and accept the fact that Microsoft is here to stay, whether you like it or not, and that even though you may think that Steve Jobs appreciates you as a customer, he doesn't give a crap about you or any Apple user, why do you think you get stabbed in the back by him every time they release a new product?
Ryan Karolak @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:39PM
@clak
And they'll never make computers small enough to fit in a pocket. That's crazy talk!
/sarcasm
Ali @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:42PM
@clak
The microsoft surface does not have 5 projectors, it has 4 cameras, and 1 projector, and that is to make it thinner anyway.. it needs more cameras as even if they did make a wide enough lens to cover the whole screen from that distance, the distortion would make the tracking of the hands almost impossible.
The technology behind the iphone is completely different than the surface. if you read jeff hann's original mutli touch paper, you will understand the point of the technology is that current multi touch implementations do not scale (upwards, as in bigger screen size), which is what hann and microsoft have been trying to do with their multi touch work. The iphone cannot detect ficidual markers on the screen either (thats what the cameras do).
One thing that people always seem to miss out on, is that these large multi touch screens are not just aimed at mult-touch interactions, as you said, you can do these interactions on a small scale already. The main benefit of these screens is multi user.. that is a much more appealing idea.
I do have to say though, that the AT&T application seems very pointless. why would i want to actually have to organise a load of bits of paper spread out in a mess all over my desk to figure out if like the phone.. and then find out the price is printed on the back!!?!!
Antimatter @ Apr 2nd 2008 7:42PM
@Clak
Microsoft uses cameras in the Surface not for finger detection, but for finger and object detection. You can't detect objects through a capacitive touch screen like the iPhone's. If you wanted to scale the surface technology down to a laptop or phone size, you can always buy a capcitive touch LCD. N-Trig makes a 12.1" capacitive touch LCD with an active digitizer for pen use. It's already shipping in the Dell Latitiude XT (although N-Trig is taking their sweet time with the SDK, the tech is there).
Also, there's a Microsoft Labs video somewhere, I think on Channel 9, of a multitouch implementation using infrared mounted on a Dell laptop. Right now it's big, but it's a proof of concept that can easily be scaled down to fit in the bezel.
Antimatter @ Apr 2nd 2008 8:10PM
@Clak
"That version of multi-touch won't work without five big azz projectors beneath the glass, so no, you still won't see the Surface's version of multi-touch in laptops."
The Surface SDK just uses .NET and WPF. It will work on any Windows Vista computer. I don't know the details of the SDK, but given how capacitive screens work, the only thing you won't be able to do with the Latitidue XT is detect objects. None of this matters anyway because you're not going to have 5 guys sitting around a 12.1" screen, only a single user with 10 inputs at most. When you have a screen as big as the Surface's, it's okay that the touch implementation isn't scalable to pocket sizes.
Drew Green @ Apr 2nd 2008 8:12PM
@Clak
How is Microsoft releasing multi-touch capabilities copying Apple? It's not such a complicated idea. Copying a UI (cough, M8 copying iPhone, cough) is a blatant rip off (at least the initial designs were), but what you're saying is similar to arguing that if the first laptop to incorporate a touch pad was a Windows machine, that by Apple incorporating this technology into their laptops they would be ripping off a MS technology.
Touch displays are the way of the future. God only knows what kind of touch capabilities computers will have 10 years from now, but in the mean time, multi-touch is the next logical (and feasible) technology to add to touch screens.
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 8:21PM
@Antimatter
Note: Read the comment right above you. I haven't been talking about multi-touch technology that uses capacitive screens. I'm talking about the Surface technology, which uses five projectors to enable users to interact with more than one hand and with multiple objects. As you just stated, that is not scalable, which was exactly my point.
But please explain this sentence: "When you have a screen as big as the Surface's, it's okay that the touch implementation isn't scalable to pocket sizes."
Why is that okay? Just because? The biggest problem with The Surface is the under carriage. You can't sit at the Surface without leaning over to use it and that's a big problem. I'm sitting at a table right now and I can write on pieces of paper without leaning over it, but that's because my legs are underneath the table.
wixostrix @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:16AM
@ clark about the restaurant table idea.
uhh...to my understanding ppl touch tables whether or not they have screens. and they do clean tables at all restaurants i go to. so i really dont see your point here.
GenericWhiteGuy @ Apr 2nd 2008 8:41PM
@clak
The Surface does not use five projectors. You keep repeating this, but that doesn't make it true. One projector, five cameras.
I've seen extremely short-throw projectors that adjust the picture to a square image when projected from a few inches away. Cameras can be made extremely small. I can imagine a surface table that has a top you can put your legs under and tilt like a drafting table that is only a couple inches thick. If there is a market, I'm sure there will be solutions that can be implemented.
In the meantime, the technology is pretty cool. At this point, the AT&T implementation is more to impress customers and bring them into stores than really useful.
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 9:06PM
If Microsoft really wanted to set themselves apart from the pack, they would do away with the five projectors and make a touch screen without the five projectors, and then those five projectors wouldn't take up so much space. Did I mention that the five projectors are really bad? No more five projectors. Five projectors are just a bad idea. Microsoft. Surface. Projectors. Five of them.
happy_penguin @ Apr 2nd 2008 9:34PM
Christ this is making my head spin.
Jimmy Jones @ Apr 2nd 2008 9:39PM
You should have ran into an APPLE tree by now with all your fanboism over Surface is this and iPhone is that ....and M$ is a copycat and APPLE is the inventor .... May be you'll get the Engadget best blogger of the year in December.....you should consider this as an accomplishment....just cuz of your Apple fanboism.
clak @ Apr 2nd 2008 9:45PM
It's amazing that I can get so many "passive" Microsoft users to defend a computer they can't even afford. Just like Macs.
happy_penguin @ Apr 2nd 2008 9:54PM
What's more amazing is to attack something you've never seen.
Matt @ Apr 2nd 2008 11:04PM
Clack, you're the biggest fucking dumbass, ever.
Surface is more than just the hardware. The whole project has two sides, hardware and software. The current hardware uses ONE PROJECTOR. Read: ONE PROJECTOR. Not five. Not three. One projector. Also as I said before, there is currently no multitouch capable display as large as surface, and as other have stated there is no other way to do device detection either.
Your claim is that surface is not scalable beyond a big table. This is not correct. The surface software can use ANY capacitive display capable of multi-touch input in theory, as has been demonstrated. Yes in it's current form it is a big table intended to be used by more than one person, but this in no way limits the software to that use exclusively. Surface tech could be used in everything from handheld devices to laptops to desktop computers, to coffee table type devices as has been demonstrated.
Finally, Microsoft isn't "copying" Apple with Multitouch. Microsoft has been developing surface since 2001, long before touch interfaces were even a blip on Apple's radar. Surface has been demoed since 2005, the year development on the iPhone started. So if anything you can claim that Apple stole multitouch from Microsoft.
All and all you're wrong in every single one of your statements.
Zorque @ Apr 2nd 2008 11:35PM
Clak, don't make me dig up unsavory quotes from you. Clak.txt will be a swift vengeful strike the likes of which you will have never seen before.
John @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:18AM
ONE PROJECTOR.
ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER
DO YOU SPEAK IT?
spacegravity4me @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:23AM
GOSH- TO EVERYONE!
I don't even know if anybody will see this now because there are so many comments and someone may have already mentioned this but the point is that the surface technology, in essence, WILL SCALE DOWN! READ- Who all remembers a about a year and a half ago and then recently, about 3 months ago, engadget posting the story about the technology that was being developed allowing for every pixel on a screen to also be used simultaneously as a freaking camera? I remember! That alone, if I remember it being just as I described is a MAJOR advancement for stuff like this. That means that on top of us no longer having to look at cameras when vid conferencing and being able to look people in the eye (finally!) we can also take that tech, build it into a a flat thin design, rig it software wise to where the "cameras" can all work together to recognize object size etc, and bingo, ya got a device like the surface. You could make that into a desk, or combine it with transparent circuits and bendable silicon substrates to make devices that are out of this world, though the bendable stuff would take quite a bit of time and refining. The POINT- it will happen, it will be pocket able, it will be your desk, your wall, your cereal box(catch that reference give u a penny), it will be everywhere! So just CHILL! Course, if I'm wrong about what I've read then it's all moot and were screwed! So good day!
I SAID GOOD DAY!!!
clak @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:32AM
The Surface has five projectors.
Abuzar @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:42AM
I swear to Allah clak I am this > < close to ripping your guts out.
Seriously, SHUT UP. I just read five hundred comments telling you that the surface has FIVE CAMERAS AND ONE PROJECTOR, but you don't listen.
clak @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:55AM
You guys refuse to read what I actually say. I never said Microsoft copied Surface from Apple. I said that Microsoft is copying Apple in their next version of WINDOWS. Windows 7. And you guys can drone on about the Surface being scalable, but the underlying hardware is not scalable or Microsoft would have scaled it down already. Have you seen pictures of the Surface? Not just the top, but the entire thing? Do you really think Microsoft likes the horrible under carriage? If you think they do, you're a moron of unlimited potential.
This is from Wikipedia:
"Surface is essentially a Windows Vista PC tucked inside a table, topped with a 30-inch reflective surface in a clear acrylic frame. A projector underneath the surface projects an image onto its underside, while five cameras in the machine's housing record reflections of infrared light from human fingertips."
There's a desktop computer underneath running the show with five projectors and there is no way Microsoft is going to bring that down to a small size, without giving up the functionality to interact with 10 fingers and up to 52 touches at a time. Anything less would just be another capacitive display and Apple is already doing that better, in a device that's already scalable. So please, attack what I wrote, not what you THOUGHT I wrote.
Abuzar @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:20AM
Hell I'll quote you!
"The Surface has five projectors."
"This is from Wikipedia:
'Surface is essentially a Windows Vista PC tucked inside a table, topped with a 30-inch reflective surface in a clear acrylic frame. A projector underneath the surface projects an image onto its underside, while five cameras in the machine's housing record reflections of infrared light from human fingertips.'"
clak @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:25AM
Thanks, Abuzar, I'm glad you agree with me. At least one Microsoft Fanboy can be reasonable about this discussion. Five projectors. Like I'm been saying all along.
happy_penguin @ Apr 3rd 2008 1:32AM
I really don't give a fuck how many projectors Surface has. It's an amazing piece of technology. What sucks most is to attack it when nobody really knows what it's like without actually using it.
Fanboyism sucks. Period.
Decoy @ Apr 3rd 2008 3:56AM
A camera is not a projector. Is this where the confusion lies?
redspear @ Apr 3rd 2008 5:00AM
Clak
You are an idiot. You say you edit for a living and then preach as if the world only uses Final Cut Pro. Guess what I edit for a living you know what I use? I use Avid and FCP and After Effects. You know what all are adequate. Apple stole the Xerox PARC system there is more to it than that xerox had anti trust regulations limiting patents guess what MS, Apple and IBM(OS 2) all stole from Xerox. They also each brought there on flavor. Did you know MS is older than Apple guess you didn't. I happen to use all OSs. I happen to like them all but I do prefer windows to OS X so shoot me I find it easier to use and I prefer Avid to FCP and Adobe(though AE is a fiendish delight of mine). While I am off topic I am going to guess you have limited editing experience and work for a small company and are fresh out of grad school. Someone who never touched a true Telecine or worked on a real work station or even actual cut real film.
BTW it only uses one projector. If you ever worked with those maybe you would understand having five is pointless....unless you don't know the difference between projectors and IR cameras. Also it is to a rip off of the Iphone....Unless the Iphone can read credit cards and model numbers.
But since you are an editor and I am sure you must of done some color correction what is the main difference between film and CCDs that can cause CCDs to appear more purple or whitish without adequate filters?
y3k.nik @ Apr 3rd 2008 7:09AM
clak, you made me hurt my head..
now i am going to cry at work all day because blind dumbasses like you exist.
thanks for ruining a day at work clak.. i hope you are happy now!
Abuzar @ Apr 3rd 2008 7:20AM
No I don't agree with you. Look at your quotes again, they don't match up.
clak @ Apr 3rd 2008 10:34AM
@redspear
I think the term you're looking for is "blooming," although I don't do color correction. We have a nerd in a da Vinci suite for that. I'm trying to get my production house to switch over to Apple's Color, but they're Pandora freaks and won't hear of it. Avid is okay, but I didn't learn on Avid and it's doesn't have a very user friendly setup.
And Adobe After Effects is okay for stuff like layering, but if you want real visual effects, you got to learn Shake. The last version of After Effects I used was 6.5, but back then, the compositing was crap without plug-ins. After Effects is really a motion graphics program disguised as a visual effects program, but no one who's serious about visual effects uses it. Does the latest version of After Effects even have floating point yet? Come on in and join the twentieth-first century. All you need to do is come outside.
And as far as your queries go: I didn't go to Grad School, which is pretty much a waste of money. No one in Hollywood cares if you have a graduate degree. Hell, no one hardly cares if you have a Bachelors. Not that I regret going. I did cut film, in film school using a splicer, rewinds and an ancient Moviola. I am so happy that I live in the digital age.
And don't let my use of "projector" instead of "camera" fool you. I'm just screwing around with the Microsoft Fanboys. People always say there are no Microsoft Fanboys, but if that's true, why is it so easy to enrage them about silly things? They're just as bad as those Apple fanboys who used to flame writers like Dvorak. Now that Windows is losing, they're even worse.
And by the way, Apple did not steal from Xerox PARC. They licensed the GUI from Xerox in exchange for 1 million in pre-IPO Apple stock (which was worth 18 million later). You need to stop believing all the FUD you read about Apple.
Derbeste @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:12AM
OMG clak....
I don't see this much stupidity even in Joystiq comments!
I thought only console fans had the mentality of "It's not me...it's EVERYONE else."
Do you seriously not understand the difference between a projector and a camara?
Let me clear it up for in REALLY basic terms.
Camara - Takes IN light. Captures external data. Needs no light source of its own. It is an INPUT device. Like a webcam or microphone.
Projector - Puts OUT light. Provides data in the form of light to external users. Has a "big azz" light source of it's own. It is an OUTPUT device. Like a Monitor or even speakers.
To say that Surface has five projectors is like saying my Klipsch system has five MICROPHONES.
The difference this distinction makes to the future of Surface technology is at the very heart of the issue.
You can't even get this one incredibly simple concept and you want people to believe anything else you say has even an ounce of credibility?
You must have quite an apetite...Most people I know stop eating at ONE foot.
clak @ Apr 3rd 2008 11:40AM
The Surface has FIVE projectors FOREVER.
sam @ Apr 5th 2008 12:01AM
10/10 successful troll is very successful
poote @ Apr 3rd 2008 5:16PM
C'mon guys, Five projectors? What is M$ thinking? Oh yeah, iPhone iPhone iMac and Power Book. I can't believe they would copy the iPhone with touch screen. We all know Apple invented the touch screen! Next thing I know you'll be telling me the world is flat and we aren't the center of the universe!
salut @ Apr 7th 2008 3:05PM
We all know Microsoft has copied/stolen in the past, but I give them credit for the Surface which I'm sure will be successful.
Isaac @ Apr 2nd 2008 6:27PM
AT&T likes touch screens.
Abuzar @ Apr 3rd 2008 12:42AM
I'll show YOU what you can touch.